An Open Letter to All Appraisal Management Companies from an Appraiser Part. 1

Monday, June 11, 2012

To Whom it May Concern (and I hope there are many who are):

There are a great number of appraisers who do, but I personally do not... hate you that is. I find it very interesting that I work in a profession where most of my peers loathe the very hand which feeds them. Oh, I understand their reasonings, I just do not choose to subscribe to them myself. If you will please allow me a few minutes of your time, I will strive to accomplish three things. First, I would like to explain to you in understandable terms why it is that the appraisers who work for you curse your very name. Second, you should know why you should care. And third, I would like to make some suggestions as to what can be done about it.

First, a little background. What gives me, Dustin Harris, the authority to speak on such a subject? You should first know what I am NOT. I am not a banker, and I do not claim to understand the incredibly complicated world of national (or international) lending. As you can tell by my writing style, I am not a journalist or an intellectual. Finally, I have no personal vendetta or selfish goal in writing such a letter as this beyond what you read here. My desire goes no further than to educate, which brings me to what I AM. I am an appraiser and have been for nearly two decades. More than 80% of my work comes from companies like yours - AMCs. I am a teacher. As The Appraiser Coach, I spend a great deal of my time mentoring and consulting with other appraisal business owners across the country. I speak at appraisal conferences and I write to (and receive feedback from) hundreds of appraisers each week. As the Founder and Owner of Your Appraisal Office, LLC., I have appraiser clients in many different states and are intimately involved in their day-to-day business dealings. In other words, I not only work for AMCs myself, but I may be as well-connected to other appraisers as you are likely to find. I have a unique perspective on what appraisers are going through and what their personal feelings are about it.

Why Appraisers Hate You

Fee appraisers are tired. They are tired of working long hours for little pay. These are good women and good men who have put in a lot of effort to become educated, experienced and experts at what they do. Like anyone else, they simply want a chance to be successful. Frankly, most just want to be able to pay their mortgage, car payments, and have some food on their tables.

Due to recent changes, some have not been able to make it, and others do not want to even try anymore. Reliable statistics are hard to come by, but it appears that there were more than 100,000 real estate appraisers in the United States 3.5 years ago (before the 'housing market crash of '08'). Now, there are less than 70,000 of us left. Think about that; we have lost 30% (or 10% per year) of our profession! That is staggering. Furthermore, the majority of appraisers still around are 50 years of age or more and will be retiring soon. What is more alarming is that we are not reproducing ourselves. The number of new appraisers now entering the field is almost too minute to even calculate.

Why is this happening? Appraisers are being asked to do more and more while being paid less and less (per hour). It used to be that a quality appraisal report would take an appraiser 3-4 hours to complete from start to finish. Now, with the amount of scope creep, it may take twice that. Are we being paid twice as much for that work? Would I be writing this letter if we were?

Scope creep means that Engagement Letters are looking less and less like appraisal orders and more and more like a doctoral thesis. We are being asked to take pictures of just about everything. I received a request just this week to "make sure the toilet, tub and sink are all showing in the pictures of the bathrooms." For Pete's sake! Furthermore, requiring six comparable sales on a standard tract-home just might be a bit much, don't you think?

Though overall fees have crept up a bit over the past several months (thank you for that), we are being paid far less per hour than we were just a few years ago (most of my 'Your Appraisal Office' clients report more than 50% less). Furthermore, the borrowers are paying much more for their appraisal services, and due to lacking reporting requirements, they think that fee is all going to the guy standing on their doorstep with a digital camera, measuring tape and clipboard.

Granted, much of this is not your fault. We all know that much of this creeping scope stuff has been heaped on by politicians who seem to think that it is their job to save us all from the housing crises (that they played a major role in creating - by the way). Excessive regulations (from both the lawmakers and the big lenders) have caused you, the AMC, to require more of us. We get it. We are not blaming you for the entire problem. This letter should be pushed up the chain to the bureaucrats in Washington and the regulators in New York as well. In fact, the majority of the burden may lay on their shoulders. But, there are some things that you can do, and I aim to show you why it is in your own self-interest to do so.

Why You Should Care

Let's face it, at the end of the day you, like us, are in this profession to make a buck. AMC does not stand for "Appraisal Management Charity." You need to make a living as much as the appraiser needs to make a living. And that, of course, is why you should care about this problem. If we continue losing appraisers at the rate we have seen them leave over the past three years, it will take less than seven years to see them all become extinct. Of course, if all the appraisers are gone, your company is ancient history as well.

Naturally, no one expects that appraisers are all going to be gone in less than a decade. But, that is why something must be done now. Having a large pool of appraisers to work with is an asset to you. The larger the appraiser population, the better your ability to choose the very best from among them to work for your company.

Some Suggestions to Reverse the Trend

Again, I am not an expert in the financial arena, but I am a capitalist, and I am a multiple business owner. I understand the laws of prosperity and they apply, I believe, equally to both small companies (like the fee appraiser) and medium to large structures (like some AMCs and lenders). So with that, allow me to make several suggestions on how we can work together to change the status quo. 

Read the conclusion to this article HERE

Comments

I was wondering how many appraisers had disappeared. Those of us left can complete half as many of the new bloated 1004mc XML/UAD reports as before.  This doesn't mean scarcity will drive up fees. It means lenders will come up with new products such as the $45 fee offered for an appraiser to augment an AVM. For $45 the appraiser is  asked to put his/her  experience, knowledge ,lic & E&O on the line while spending 2-3 hours driving by houses and comps for original photos and sending and resending to get around automated filters.  For this,  you wait a minimum  3 weeks to get paidMy guesss is fees may go up long enough for  the MBA and AMS principally owned by Banks to come up with "valuation products "that do away with standard reports. Honestly, this may not be a bad idea for many cookie cutter assignmnents. However, an appraiser can't keep the lights on waiting for an assignment that pays an honest fee. A trainee would be foolish to invest time and money to be licensed in the current unstable environment, only to be offered $45.     When my Prius with 170,000 miles kicks the bucket. I am out of here.  

Does strategic default sound familiar? Banks, car companies and some astute homeowners are doing the dance.  Washington and the politicos have declared it so.  The game was rigged by scheisters playing with other peoples money and everyone lost.  What retirement portfolio?                          Appraisers  had an honorable mission. We were suppose to be the independent, impartial guard of the housing sector but we failed.  We did not police our greedy or incompetent peers or adhere to U.S.P.A.P.  We believed the bankers and politicians and became anesthetized by the economic sirens.  We forgot Economics 101: what goes up must go down.  Some of us saw the crash  comming but kept playing the game of false appreciating values set up by real estate agent dreams and builder fantasies.  We all can share in the blame.  The new austerity is on the horizon.   If your under a certain age and are O.K. working for peanuts and burdensome rules and regulations you might survive to see it come back again in 5-10 years depending on who wins in November.  R.I.P. Professional Appraisers       

AMC's vary widely in what they will pay.  Asking an appraiser to do a complex appraisal at the 'standard' fee and 'standard' turn time will result in shoddy, cut-corners work. Some AMC's 'broadcast' appraisal assignments and apparently pick the quickest and cheapest.  Although this is laudable for a capitalistic enterprise, appraisers are not free to complete an appraisal report as they see fit because of pages and pages of lender instructions, UAD limitations, Federal guidelines etc.Appraisers are 'scored' on their turn around time which is usually 48 hours no matter what the assignment.  In summary, the appraisal industry is NOT a free market due to government regulation so government should address this fee/turn-time issue. 

Older Appraisers will soon be retiring?? Don't think so Dustin. They won't have the money. We already routinely see Appraisers in there mid 70's in our ce classes. The scope creep has turned summary appraisals into almost self contained appraisals. In 2004 it took 4 hours for a typical nearby appraisal. Today it takes 8 or 9.

do you think they really care? I don't. Dodd Frank did nothing to help. Appraisers are afraid to stand up for a better fee because the AMC just moves on the next man on the list who will do it for less. And they always find someone. So they don't care if you go out of business because there are appraiser that are willing to give it away. So they have no incentive to be fair. The laws mean nothing. For a 1004 with the MC they are charging an average of $400 to 500 according to a mortgage broker that I still talk to and the appraiser is getting 50% or less. And it is all hidden from the consumer. Where is the legislation to create a disclosure form and/or change the closing statement. I for one am tired of getting screwed every time I go on  a job.And when there aren't enough appraisers to go around that is when they will have the excuse to bring back the AVM and bye bye to the  appraisers. Appraisers are not organized enough like realtors to have any power in DC and for that we get stepped on. We should all become part of the NAR (national association of reators) and make it the National Association of realtors and Appraisers and then we would have a common voice in DC. We need powerful help because nothing is happening  and nothing will. I can tell you for me right now the numbers don't give me any reason to keep doing this and it is only a matter of time.On the edge in NJAS 

Please stop generalizing.  If you  think we (an AMC) doesn't care, you are wrong.  We have been in businees since 1985 and we built this business through the hard work of our in house staff and our appraiser partners.  We have always outsourced appraisals and we have always tried to take care of our partners.  Dodd Frank did very little to help an AMC like ours.  The government cannot fix what the appraisers and rogue institutions have broken.  The abuse of the free market has badly damaged this industry.  However, some of us are trying to rectify the situation.  Be responsible for your work, accept good assignments, decline bad assignments, and work with GOOD AMCs.  The one good thing Dodd Frank is doing is putting transparency in the process.  It will take a while, but the playing is leveling and bad institutions will be held accountable for their actions.

Always enjoy your blogs Dustin. I have side by side with some thankless AMC's all day, every day and its draining. However I do work with some honorable AMC's that do have some the appraisers interests in mind and are not completely "I" centered. Anyways keep up the good work!Gabe TrevizoAZCertified Appraiser@AppraisingAZ

Dustin is being  too kind to AMCs perhaps to not totally allienate them.  Yes there are good AMCs for exampleIn House Solutions. But there are  litterally  dozens of other small time  and big time AMCs that are worse than vermin. You all know them, they call with a "1004 in your area " with a turn time of 4 days and a Fee of "dogmeat". When you say no thank you. they call the next guy/gal on the list and so on. I used to say " I know you'll call around to anyone with a pluse" but when you are done , I can do it for you for xxx and have it back on xx/xx/xx. Amazingly I would get about 1 in 4 or 5  to call back with a better offer  which was never quite high enough  but usually I would finally get the appropriate Fee.I even used to suggest that everyone do that,, but I have changed my mind. Now when they call I usually just tell them, " I don't work with AMCs anymore". Thats not strictly true because I do have a couple that are fair and decent paying.but these others!!Heck after you do accept what seems to be a normal 1004 order you get the work order and it is a real laundry list of whatever  that particular AMC has ever heard of being requested. . Even after I worked my butt of to get everything exactly as they asked on the work order and double checked it over and over  I got a call after I sent it in stating that I had to add a sketch of the basement finish. I pointed out that it was not on the work order , and they said if was A FHA requirement! I told them it was not a FHA requirement and they left me on hold for about 5 minutes while they searched for some rule they could use. They then said it was THEIR requirement, ,but I again pointed out that  it was not on the work order ,, and so on. That is just an example, like the writer above who is now asked to show the toilet, tub sink or whatever in the bath picture,,,  anyone can see the AMCs have let their client run wild.  What Lender ever  made a bad loan because they could not see the tub in the appraisal picture?Want to help AMCs self correct? STOP taking their business unless its reasonable turn times and FULL fees and if they are a new (to you) AMC ask them to send you a copy of the work order they use.I know it's easy for an old guy like me to say . I have enough regular local Banks and Credit Unions  to keep me as busy as I want to be. But I am only going to be doing this for 2-3 more years so its not my Future thats at risk. Its all those of you who will be trying to earn a living in 5-10 years  and you won't be able to if the AMCs get anymore control.  You can do something about it,, but it takes courage. Turn down the business or at the very least demand  the proper turn times and Fees. If you can't get it  tuen it down. They will then be stuck with the less qualified appraisers and the investor will  eventually figure it out.If enough of you  suck it up and do it the right way,  things will get better. If not, they won't. One last thing. About a month ago I got an order from an AMC who I had turned down a few days prior, but had told them if the wanted to pay my full Fee , i would do it for them.They sent me the order with my $350 fee and  else where on the order they had  typed in their  $550 Fee....$200 bucks to handle the order. yeah  the goverment was really looking out for the consumer when they created this fiasco.Doug

Dustin,I appreciate your open letter to AMC's. Thank-you for your commitment to our profession.I have been part of the appraisal industry for 21 years and in that time have personally appraised or supervised over $2 Billion of real estate, which works out to well over 10,000 assignments. I used to have an office filled with activity. I had 6 appraisers, 3 support staff and life was good. 4 of those appraisers made over $80,000/year. We had plans to expand and even opened another office. However in 2007 everything started coming apart. Appraisers started leaving, I had to get rid of support staff, and now in 2012 I am the only appraiser left. I am not looking for anyone to be sad for me but rather to point my situation is another one of thousands that is being played out all over the United States and the world.We should realize the turmoil we are all going through is something that has been in the making for about 40 years. The economic forces that are driving the correction are complicated because rather than allow the market to correct itself, in typical fashion our government is over-complicating and in some cases actually choosing political gain over a good fundimental solution. To prop up the banking sector our government decided to give incentives to those who purchased defaulted instutions. These incentives included loans to purchase as well as guarantees, up to 100% of loans that would default after the purchase consumated. The interesting thing was that we were told this shore up of the banking sector would lead to the revilitazation of America because the banks would step up and loan to us at at time when we most needed it. What a crock! Is there anyone out there that actually believes that banks are in business to primiraly to help there fellow man? No, they are in business to make money. In an economic environment where Credit, Copasity, Collateral, Savings and Economic conditions are headed in the wrong direction from a banks perspective, they simply cannot and will not lend in a big way.Furthermore the Fed is telling them that if we slip again and the economy falters banks will not recieve the same help from the government, they are on their own. All this equates to a sector that is holding on to Trillions of dollars and is not investing that back into the economy, but is holding that money because they believe it is in their shareholders best interest to hold on to it rather than lend it. Some lending is happening, yes, but not to the level of what we have seen in the past. Furthermore because of the reversal of equity positions of most homes in the U.S. the ability to use your home as an asset has been diminished as prices were not temporaily affect, but have been under assult for 5 years now.Another problem is that the biggest buyer of mortgages at this point is the federal government as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the main backers of loans. Because the free market is no longer operating without the influence of politics there becomes the need to consider the fact that professional valuation is not one of the biggest priorities of those in power. Actually the reverse may be true. If I were a polatician I would be very angry at appraisers because they are the ones demonstrating the fall in pricing and my constiuancy is being damaged by their reports. Also lending is slowing down because we cannot get these appraisers to have appraisals high enough to get some of these loans approved and as a polatician that can hurt.As appraisers we are fighting up hill because if we are going to change anthing we will have to influence those in power. Our numbers are small and are shrinking quickly. We cannot beat the banking or realtor influence in Washington as their numbers are too great and they hold much more sway then we most likely ever will. However the law states that the fees AMC's offer should be reasonable and customary. I have noticed that fees in many cases are neither reasonable or customary. In several cases I have been asked to do work on luxury class homes with square footage of 6,000 - 8,000 Sq. Ft.  for around $200 - $300. Those assignments would take 20-30 hours to complete, so does that mean the AMC's are saying I have similar economic value to a fast-food employee? Obviouslly they are finding someone to do these reports. Rather than argue it is easier to hit them where it counts, in the wallet. If they hire an appraiser that completes the assignment and because they did not vet his/her experience then the AMC is liable for any valuation that was wrong where a lender relied on the AMC to hire an appraiser that knew what they were doing.I encourage everyone to keep track of assignments where you are asked to do something you know will take an experienced appraiser and yet the AMC is not willing to pay for that experience. The way to change things is to use the system. Belly aching and complaining is only going to give you a few ears and mostly the ones that have the same situation you do. To make real change you must have leverage and that comes from power and that power can come from the courts enforcing the law. We must stop being the whining kid and start becoming aggressive defenders of our profession. Otherwise our profession will continue to be defined by bankers and realtors and we will remain right where we are or worse. Aaron Baaskewww.baaskeappraisals.com 

Thanks for your reply, Aaron. I, too, have been asked by AppraisalPort vendors, to complete not only 6,000sf estate homes, but 13 acre parcels with improvements, for $310. I always state my fee, and it's always removed. Who is out there doing this work on the cheap? It's very offending that there are so many appraisers willing to whore themselves out to the man for minimum wage. If we all banded together and refused to take less, they could not pay us less, but there are too many appraisers who see $310 as a fortune, compared to the $185 they were making a few years ago. We are not a one-size-fits-all industry. I don't know why AMCs have only one fee. Our regular bank clients pay whatever we invoice...the more complex a job is, the higher the fee, because it takes more time to complete. I am 46...one of the young ones. My dad is 73 and still hanging in there. I wonder what I will be doing in 10 years when the feds have enough data on all the housing to phase us out.

Aaron Baaske...you have hit the nail on the head. We either fight the system or fold our cards. We need to find which banks are in bed with which amc's & are influencing the Congress...it's just how the system works in our country. Follow the money & you will find the votes. Rob Fuentes 

I refuse any assignment that in my estimation is a losing proposition. I do not want to be paid like the counter person at Mac Donalds and I refuse to let the AMC make the majority of the money in those situations. It is no extra work for the AMC to assign an 8,000 square foot house, on the water, with 500' of bulkhead, in a gated community, in a enclusive neighborhood, just east of New York City, but it sure is a lot of extra work for me. One AMC asked me to do a similar house and offered to pay be $250.00. I refused the assignment and told them I wanted $500.00 to appraise the dwelling. Prior to 2008 I would have asked for $1,500.00, knowing the assignment would probably take the better part of a week. They told me that they would get back after they got the fee increased from the lender. Two days later, and after I had already researched the property, I called them back about the assignment. They told me it was assigned to another appraiser. At that point I finally figured it out. They got the increase from the lender and then reassigned it to an appraiser who would do it for $250.00. I hope the apprasier was happy with his $7.15 per hour. I have not accepted a difficult assigment since, and I suggest everyone who reads this to do the same.

Sad as this is I have never thought of that! You are likely right on point. I hate this profession.

I once was an appraiser many years ago when times were good. I recently had a job at an AMC, which was the worst place I had ever worked at.  You are right.  They will ask for the fee increase and pocket that money with a lower fee appraiser.  Some of you out there think that you are working with a great AMC but don't forget they are in business to make money.  They will sweet talk you and act like you are their best but once that phone is hung up you are nothing but a grunt worker to them that will keep their business a float.  The only time you will get what you want is if there is no one else for them to do the job.  As mentioned in an earlier comment; appraisers are the ants that the AMC grasshoppers feed off of. This whole thing has turned into a 3 ring circus! I must say, I am happy that I turned in my clown suit.

 Thank you Dustin! But I don't think they are listening. They have the volume turned down, way down. I am a 25 year veteran appraiser who will be leaving this industry sooner than I had originally planned.

I just finished reading this article with great interest as, at the end of this month, I am retiring from the appraisal business for just the reaons noted in the article.  I've been in the appraisal business for 2 decades and the spread got too wide.  The spread I'm refering to is the amount of time required to do the job (increased) and the amount of appreciation for puting in the time (decreasing) got too wide.  Life is too short to work it away.  Good luck to everyone who hangs in there.

Nice words but that's all they are " words". The banker's and the Mortgage Broker Associations "all" been in the same bed and now the new GSE UAD have joined them! It surely is the wolf watching the hen house! Their motivation, since the 1990's have been to eliminate the appraiser (who has always been regarded as a thorn in their side) and replace them with an AVM. It looks like they will do just that as soon as they have enough "data" to produce the statistical confidence levels that they all are comfortable with. Wait for the appraisal profession do die? Pardon me, but it already has!

So for what is written is fine.  But I do not think AMC's really care.  Just got a request from an AMC today.  They only asked, "What is your fee and turn time?"  Same old same old.  In the county I work in there are few appraisers and one is in his 40's and all the rest in late 50's or older.   Lots of property few appraisers.  240 real estate agents though!   The Appraisal Foundation is upping the requirements for a certified residential appraiser to college education plus appraisal experience.  I don't think it will be long and finding an appraiser will be like trying to find a snow ball in the desert; especially rural areas were AVM's simply do not work.  Then watch those fees sky rocket.  I am likely going to see those days, and I can tell you one thing.  My fees are going to be in the $600 to $700 range for an appraisal.  It's called making up for lost revenue.  And there won't be any young ones to quickly jump in with the new requirements.And reviews?  Heck easily $1,000. Because if I am going to be possibly fined $10,000 for not turning in an appraiser then I'm going to be sure I am very will compensated to have that hanging over my head.I'll be waiting to see what is said later on.  But I'm not sure it will matter.  Maybe some bankers should look down the road and see the fees we are going to be charging in the next 5 years.  Yep that's what I give it, because when the new requirements come in you won't see ANY TRAINEES!

You are so right by the supply and demand. I recently quoted to lenders and banks which I know have used amc's and are now ordering on the own. Fees of $450 to $500 are still below what the amc's are quoting and the lenders can work direct with the appraiser's just like in the olden days. Just say no to amc's.

The fees will only increase when enough appraisers leave the industry and there is a shortage of appraisers.  Only then will AMC's begin to pay higher fees to appraisers.It is simple supply and demand.  As long as someone is willing to work for less they will pay you less.Got out of appraising in 2008.  I now pay $108.00 per week for healthcare and drive 8 miles to work.  My gross pay is not  the same as it was in 2003-2004 but my net pay is as good.  I got my masters and became a school teacher.  Appraisers that hold out should hit an up-cyle in a few years if appraisers keep leaving the industry and interest rates stay low and housing recovers.  Otherwise it be be a longer wait.

Fees are kept artificially low by AMCs. Why do you think so many AMCs forbid you from having conversations with the borrower about fees? Think about that. The person providing the service, and the person paying for the service, are forbidden from discussing the cost or performance of the service, and they call that a free market. WOW! As mortgage appraisers, our job is to provide objective analysis to people who really don't want it. Banks would LOVE to get rid of appraisers in their race to the bottom. Here is my prediction: AMCs and Banks will continue to slash up the appraisal proffession, then use the result of their actions to justify getting rid of the living, breathing appraiser altogether. Anybody wanna put money on it?

When appraising was a noble profession, prior to licensing, most self respecting appraisers would not dare admit to colleagues that they have lowered themselves to working for what were referred to as "sweat-shops". They are now called AMCs. This all began with the banks hiring gangs of trainees who were burger flippers and counter clerks and run them through boot camp training sessions that produced a large army of submissive form fillers. Instant appraisers on the loose after that! The banksters got their way again. Enjoy the consequences! Oh yes, another Certified General Appraiser with credentials as an Architect and City building Inspector has bowed out along with many other CGAs with high standards of professionalism. One would have to be a masochist to continue subjecting oneself to this current level of abuse and degradation. 

I hope this is a good reason to vote for all GOP's as they want to do away with Dobb/Frankie bill. I least that is what they are saying. But the amc's will cry about all the jobs that will be lost. To bad.I'm 62 and not many more yrs. left in this business. After 25+ yrs. my favorate job of all times is not looking very good. But I will survive. But if I was any younger I would look for something else.the amc and lenders want to do away with appraisers and just fine someone to take pictures and maybe inspect the properties, they will do the rest. I personally have worked with several amc's over the years and have told many to quit calling me, take me off your list. Most want everything for peanuts and within 24 hrs. "Drop what you are doing and do mine Now". I currently only work for 1 amc and only when I have nothing else to do and the subject properties are very easy. I still do have a few good bank and lenders which want a good quality appraisal and give me a week to conplete if needed.If appraiser's would just stand their ground and demand decent fees we would all be better off. But we know and the amc's know that will never happen.

AMCs exploded during the Bush administration, while the GOP controlled the whole government. This is the same mentality that created Asian sweat shops and sub-prime mortgages; welfare for large corporations, and free enterprise for everyone else. It is Dodd-Frank, not Dobb-Frank.

Thats why they call it Dobb-Frankie. LOL

LOL, I think the National Homeownership Strategy began around 1994... under the Clinton Administration; nice try though

It was even before Clinton.....try going back to Carter. Back to when the idiotic idea that home ownership was a right not a privilege.  And it was indeed an all democrat idea.  Bush tried to warn them that it was a house of cards but the dems (in charge of the houses in 2006-2008) ignored him.  Dems always stick their heads in the sand and blame everyone else when their stupid policies tank....and they ALWAYS tank. Dodd-Frank writing any policy on banking/housing is as ill advised as the Feds writing a mandated health insurance plan...oh that's right the 'well meaning' Dems did that too!.

You might want to read a few replies above in regards to what would happen if the AMC's didn't "scrub" the reports that are sent in. With the number of bad reports being sent in to lenders across the country, the appraisers need to thank God the AMC's are protecting them.

Fees are a business decision by an appraiser when deciding to accept an assignment. Period. If the fee is too low, turn it down. Period.What is really about is respect. I am a professional. I have the necessary skills and experience to complete the assignment. Contact me, we will work out a fee and turn time and then LEAVE ME ALONE TO DO MY JOB.For most appraisers I know, it is the incessant status updates, arbitrary time frames for setting appointments/updating/revision requests etc., and unrealistic turn around expectations after an inspection, regardless of an agreed upon due date that seem to be the bigger issues.Once I have accepted an assignment, I am on it and providing the property owner can get me in within a reasonable time, I will meet or beat the due date. I do not need 15 computer generated e-mails and 5 phone conversations for every single file. I will update you with an inspection date, as soon as it is known, update you when it has been inspected and deliver your report on time.I will complete this report by the agreed upon due date, not the ever laughable "24 hours after inspection", which is unrealistic in most cases anyways. Nothing happens in a vacuum. This is not the only assignment on my desk. I have 3 more from you with the same annoying e-mails and 4 more from other folks.  I am likely to be on appointments for a couple of days at a time, as homeowners don't work around your schedule, and then writing reports for the next few days, so I can't always update you within 4 hours or put out all of your orders within 24 hours.I will respond to any revision requests as soon as I can. 4 hours from your e-mail request when I'm on the road all day is not realistic.Not to mention that almost all revision requests I see are for things already in the report, or so far out of the realm of normal that nobody would even think of them, until a 19 year old, minimum wage phone monkey flunky pulls it out of their backsides.  I deserve to have my work reviewed by a peer, or at least somebody who has taken an appraisal course sometime in their short lives.The only place fees come into this is timely payment. I have agreed to a fee, whatever it is. I have agreed to complete this assignment in a relatively short time frame. I now have to wait 45 to 60 days for you to get around to paying me. Send the damn check once the report clears QC. 15 days from delivery should be more than enough to have a check in my hands.I am a professional and will be treated as such. To keep tyring to treat me like an employee, which the IRS would really be interested in, who needs a nanny is to put YOUR BUSINESS  in jeopardy. Without us you are gone.    

 "Not to mention that almost all revision requests I see are for things already in the report, or so far out of the realm of normal that nobody would even think of them, until a 19 year old, minimum wage phone monkey flunky pulls it out of their backsides.  I deserve to have my work reviewed by a peer, or at least somebody who has taken an appraisal course sometime in their short lives."  - This is what infuriates my husband more than anything else. All the time wasted on frivolous requests, that more-often-than-not are already in the report, that your flunky-monkey hasn't even read!

Because I've been in the appraisal business over 30 years, both working for a bank and as an independent, I can offer that the reason status updates are improtant is because you are NOT working in a vacuum - there are borrowers, real estate agents, loan officers, underwriters, title companies and funders that need to know the status of the report so they can anticipate when the file will or won't be completed.  As annoying as they may seem, it isn't that different from you, the appraiser, needing to know the status of your tune-up or tire installation in order to plan your day of inspections.  Bugging you is not the intent, and maybe some border on that or cross that line, but asking about status of a file so that everyone knows what is going on is good business for everyone and builds the trust that the community that relies on appraisals and pays for the appraisals needs.  Let's keep in mind, at the end of the day there is just a borrower on the other end relying on that appraisal to help them keep their house, send Johnny to college or buy a home to raise their family - it's about them and those that are actually paying for the appraisal.  Thanks!

It doesn't seem from your response that you have been doing any appraisals for AMC's in the recent past. Bugging the appraiser and crossing the line is an everyday occurence in my office. On Monday of this week I got a call from an AMC and the young girl said she would like to get an update for a report that I was doing for them. I asked, which one? She said,it was the one that was scheduled for Thursday. Confused, I asked her what did she need? She said - Is it still scheduled for thursday? I said, yes. She thanked me and hung up. Whoever told her to call me wasted her time and my time. The constant request for updating is excessive.

Status updates are fine, but there does need to be a way that is more time efficient to all involved.  Some AMCs are great and pretty much leave you alone and all you need to do is update the website with appointment date and estimated delivery date. Some on the other hand will want to know each and every attempt at contacting the borrower for appointment, when the appointment is scheduled, if the appointment took place as scheduled, estimated ETA of report, etc.  With every one of these updates there is a phone call to both office and cel numbers, along with a follow up email requesting updates.Now....if an appraiser is to make enough money to cover overhead costs and pay bills....they need to be doing anywhere between five to eight appraisals a week.  Anything more than that and you will be getting short cut skippy appraisals.  Doing 5-8 a week means that appraiser is probably working seven days a week and 10 hours a day. Now....lets just add on the AMC maintenance (Hmmm maybe I could come up with a management service for appraisers that manage the AMC portion of their business....an AMMC) portion to that.  Say you have five on your desk to type, five to inspect, and five to schedule.  That is 15 files.....of which we need to know probably need to spend 1 hour each day updating websites and say another 1/2 hour each day taking status calls (even after the web updates).  Counting a five day workweek (as AMCs seem to be working only five days a week compared to our seven) that is 7.5 hours a week wasted on "status updates". Now....let's talk about QA reviewers and ther ever increasing role in time consumption.  For every file it takes an appraiser approximately a 1/2 hour to 1 full hour addressing QA revisions and re-uploading the report. (Oh! I forgot to add in the extra time it takes for uploading reports to insanly rediculously designed websites that take forever to upload reports).  Back to the QA thing.....at .75 hours for only five reports we are talking another 3.75 hours added. Now, back to uploading reports.....it used to be that once we were done with a report, we could pdf it and email it out.  Each report now takes about a 1/2 hour to upload....so let's just add another 2.5 hours. So far I have 13.75 hours added to my work week.  No wonder I have to work seven days a week and 10 hour days just to do a good job.  Anyone doing anything less is asking for trouble in my opinion.My point is...I could care less where my orders come from.  I would just like to be left alone to do my work without incessant interruptions and inane requests. Please give me the time I need to complete the report and let me concentrate on producing a quality product. As far as regulation is concerned?  Give me a break!  Realtors, Bankers, Loan Officers, and Appraisers have been regulated near to death....now AMCs have to be regulated and we hear how bad it is for them?  You are crying to the wrong crowd.

We hold the licenses, and we make the decision to work for walmart greater fees.We COULD have stopped this over night when it first started.  All we had to do was just say no.  What lender would use an AMC that couldn't deliver.  I'm still getting request for full appraisals as cheap as $175.  I had a request for a field review WITH 3 new comparables for $150 - which I turned down TWICE.It's not too late to end this BS, but there are too many stupid people who came into the business and don't realize the true cost of being in business...the thousand of dollars that your employer used to pay for MLS/lockbox key/insurance/rent/fica/medicare/etc & etc.So if you want to stay in this business AND make a living in this business, you'd better wise up and say no to sweatshop fees.  AMCs are charging up to $100 more than market fees and paying less than half of market fees.  $300 to email a request and an appraisal report is good work for AMCs.Your choice fellow appraisers.   

I am part of a nationwide AMC that has been around for two decades - and I am an appraiser as well. Let me tell you something - when appraisers show me that they are worth $60-90 an HOUR (who else gets paid that??) then the AMCs will pay that - because we'll have less overhead from review staff, order entry personnel, state regulations that can cost up to $5,000 per YEAR to register, etc. When I call an appraiser for a revision to have him put his report into UAD format and he says "What's UAD?", then we have a major issue. Appraisers quote me USPAP constantly and they are frequently misquoting it (I have a current copy on my desk at all times). Appraisers worry about getting in trouble with the state boards, but when they turn in ridiculously poor quality work, and my staff has to send them a list of corrections to make it USPAP, FNMA and UAD compliant, we are PROTECTING the appraiser. Appraisers say that they wish AMCs would stop asking them for statuses - when you worked directly with the lender, did they not call you almost daily? Because they sure call us daily. And when YOU don't pick up the phone or check your email, WE'RE the ones getting yelled at.We ask for fees and turn times to help determine customary and reasonable. Most AMCs have profiles where you can input your fees. If your profile, created by YOU, says $250, don't complain if that's what we send the order out at.

So far, I have done over 5000 appraisals for AMCs. The only questions I have ever been asked are:1. How little can we pay you?2. How fast can you do it?Never once in 20 years has any AMC ever asked me how good a job I could do. In fact, they've never even hinted at it. I honestly don't think it has ever occurred to them.

I also work with a nationwide AMC that has been around for 20 + years.  I am also an appraiser.  I agree with most of what your saying, but  you or any other entity don't have the right to state what a licensed professional that is operating their business should make.  There is overhead to operating a company and a very large liability.  Of course just like anything, the market should dictate rates, but at the same time the discussion of what an appraiser makes an hour is none of your business.  It is their business! 

I honestly don't think AMC's know or understand the high expense of being an appraiser - All of our expenses have increased over the last few years, and our fees have been decreased.  Time and time again I try to inform people of what we have to deal with - MLS dues alone are several thousand dollars a year, lockbox keys, web transmission, licensing, continuing education, E & O insurance, other resources for comparables, updating software, corporation expenses, gas, car expenses, insurance for our equipment, updating our equipment, attending and paying for seminars and webinars to keep ourselves up to date and I'm sure I"m missing a few things.  Expenses are high and we, as appraisers, definitely need to base our fees with these expenses considered.  Also, AMC's need to realize that we have no benefits, no medical, dental, life insurance, 401K -, vacation or sick time, unless we pay for it from our "fees".  There is  not much left to call profit once we pay our expenses.  I would estimate that at least 50% of appraisers did away with health insurance when fees were decreased. I would like to hear what any other appraisers think about this....Nancy M.  Florida Appraiser  (appraising for 13+ years and would like to continue) 

All I have to say is who are you to make a comment like this:"when appraisers show me that they are worth $60-90 an HOUR "For real who are you and what justifies you to think that you need to be shown what a local professional is worth?  An appraiser is a licensed profession just like any other business and due to current regulation we have become more or less employees without benefits.  An appraiser does not need to "show" you anything!!

Not all appraisers hate AMCs, we have many that have been with us for 15+ years, and aren't going anywhere. But we have a great relationship with these appraisers because they realize that they need us just as much as we need them.AMCs are NOTHING NEW. Many (like mine) have been operating for over 20 years and never had any issues until these regulations came along and a hatred was built for our industry. Appraiser owned and operated and we still get a bad rep for simply being referred to as an AMC. Just to remind everyone, if you have an appraisal office and you re-assign orders to another contract appraiser in your office- you're an AMC by regulatory definitions.  Most appraisers who say they don't need AMCs, are being pretty ignorant to the current industry. The truth is, for the most part, appraisers can't provide the full service required by the lenders. That is why most lenders already have, or are in the process of, switching their ordering processes to utilize an AMC. These days lenders want appraisal ordering processes to be fully integrated with their current LOS, they want automated status updates on the progress of the appraisal report (at every single step), and they want an aggregate, cloud-based system that allows them to log in at any time, any day, and check the status of an order and/or download a report in both PDF and XML formats. They also want full compliance management and delivery to Fannie and Freddie's UCDP, per UMDP guidelines. In addition, many lenders want monthly quality control audits of a random selection (typically 10%) of ALL appraisal reports ordered for that month, and some even ask for AVM audits. We also have credit unions requiring a copy of every single internal review for their quality-control compliance departments to keep on hand in case of an audit. We have even gone to multiple lenders to provide an in-house training session for their entire lending staff (equipped with slideshows, handouts, and a summary online) on how appraisals work and how we can all optimize our processes to provide an efficient, fully streamlined service. Our lenders also like to stay up-to-date with current industry changes (like the need for carbon monoxide detectors) on a monthly basis so they can better educate their borrowers throughout the lending process- which is why we have a monthly newsletter and frequently updated blog site on industry trends and regulations. AMCs also have to read regulations constantly regarding both the mortgage and the appraisal side of things. That includes the horrid Dodd-Frank Bill, NCUA Guidelines, Fannie and Freddie Guidelines, FHA Regulations, Etc. Not to mention the guidelines by every state's individual appraisal board (which we now have to register with for upwards of $2500-$5000 a state). This does not even include the time spent on our actual internal review processes, the time it can often take to find a good appraiser in a rural area, and the actual MARKETING that has to be done to gain the clients in the first place. Are individual appraisers offering these services? I'm sick of appraisers calling AMCs pass-throughs. I realize that the bank-owned AMCs are terrible. I recently had a report done by Rels for my new home where the appraisal came in $3000 under purchase price. The Selling Agent disputed it and the value was raised $8000 to make the loan go through, and then Rels (aka Wells Fargo) charged me an additional $150 for the "dispute" totaling my report, in Seattle (non-rural, non-FHA, 2bd 1bath) at $650. They tried to tell me that charging for a dispute revision was STANDARD! It wasn't even MY dispute! Bank-owned AMCs are the real problem with the industry but the truth is that ALL AMCs cannot be lumped into this devilish category. Some appraisers greet us with attitude on our very first contact with them, like "Are you an AMC?!" when all we are trying to do is get them work and pay them the fees THEY personally input in our system. I understand the transition has been hard on the industry. I would be upset too if I worked hard to get clients only to lose them because I couldn't provide the service they now need. Nonetheless, over the past few years EVERY industry has had to go through a transition, and professionals across the board are being paid less than what they made when the economy was booming. Appraisers are not alone. When individual appraisers start offering the technology, support, compliance, quality control, marketing, and lender education that AMCs provide, then maybe I will be especially empathetic to their complaints.   *I apologize for the lack of Paragraph spacing in this-for some reason the message feed wouldn't retain my formatting settings.

 It's true that fees are about 30-40% too low for someone to make a decent living based on the work that's involved.  Right now it's about volume, and when the refi volume goes down, expect another 30% to leave the profession.  Even if someone wanted to become an appraiser, the gov't has made it impossible to get licensed.  My guess is that we're a dying breed soon to be replaced by computers and google maps.  If you think it's about supply and demand your fooling yourself.  Lenders and gov't dictate the fees.  Appraisers are low man on the totem pole with zero polictical pull in the system.

Since AMC have taken over the appraisal business – Appraisers are now form fillers.  As long as the appraisal meets the AMC/Lender form filling requirements, the appraisal is considered an acceptable report.  Appraisers are no longer critical thinkers.  Appraiser are now paper pushers doing clerical work.  My guess is that 30% to 50% of the appraisals completed for AMC are inaccurate.  I see and have seen many of the poor appraisals complete by AMC (I say AMC as the appraiser is just doing what the AMC wants).  AMC are not looking for the best/good appraisers – they tell the appraiser how to do their job (you get what you pay for).  The appraisal job (no longer a profession) was much better off before the AMC take over.  I think that there should be a RMC (Realtor Management Company) and LMC (Lender Management Company) and see how Realtors and Loan Officers/Mortgage companies would like unqualified companies taking half their income (NAR, MBA -- would not allow it to happen).  USPAP states in the PREAMBLE “to promote and maintain a high level of public trust in appraisal practice”.  AMC are promoting just the opposite. Residential Appraising Has Turned Into A Joke.  I have been appraising for 30 years and I am leaving as soon as I can (learning SAS programing a real profession).

Whe the government figures out they are losing tax money things well be changed  **The AMC's tell the appraiser how to dress, the amount of money they will be paid for a job, when they will be paid for the job, how to complete appraisals, the turn around time, etc., etc., we are not business owners anymore, we are employees, if we don't comply we will be removed from their list of receiving work-they control every aspect of an appraiser's life. There is an AMC company , who is now requiring appraisers to sit through their monthly teaching of how they want appraisals to be completed, if you don't comply with the monthly classes you will get a demerit.  **I was told my an accountant years ago that there is a fine line between employee and independent contractors and when you start training, telling people what to wear, how much you will be paid, etc., etc., it seems the fine line has been crossed into appraiser's being employee's of AMC's, and if this is so,  State and Federal government's need to tax the AMC's accordingly, or set the record straight on how much power they have over Independent Appraiser's, who are supposedly business owners.  ****The definition and job description/guidelines of an AMC needs to be clarified.

It amazes me the bringing together of an industry that has such a hard a time of coming together and agreeing on topics.  I read these comments and can not help but agree with both sides.  AMC's do have a bigger footprint in this industry and rightfully so (after the housing crisis).  AMC's can be great teachers of appraisal development but they can also be mico-managers.  Mix micro-managers with independent appraisers and you have a ticking time bomb which according to some people make us "hate you".  I have been certified for only 3 years and do not succomb to the "sweatshop fees".  My lowest fee is $300 (1004) and I am declining work every week. I work from home as single entity appraiser and feel very much in control as a "self employed" independent appraiser.  Did I say I have only been certified for 3 years?  For those who do not feel in control or "self employed" take a good look in the mirror and try NOT to put a question mark on the end when you ask who's fault it is.  The very appraisers who do except work for a low fee, worthy of complaining about, are the very appraisers who tend to do shottey work. This opinion is developed because I recently reviewed an appraisal for one client who tends to send me work from another AMC client I also work with.  I disagreed with an appraiser who had 8 comps in a report (by $8,000) for a average vinyl home (new construction). The appraiser made across the board adjustments for a busy road and somehow disregarded a comp on the same street by the subject builder within the prior 4 months.  The only thing I could say to myself was I bet he got paid $175-$225 for that. My point...It takes time to understand/analyze the data in every market and by excepting a low fee gives you no incentive to take the time to study/understand it and report it accurately and clearly. Until our Appraisal Reports and Opinion of Values become more consistent/dependable across the board for our users, then the loan industry will stop putting emphasis on new ways (if they actually are looking) to retrieve data that replaces appraisers.  Simple economics...just like when an AMC searches for the cheapest appraiser to accept the assignment.  Everybody wants something for cheaper.  Learn to say NO and then you will find your true worth!! Best of luck to us and our industry!!  I truly love it!!   

You let one appraiser ant stand up to us AMC's, and they all might stand up! Those "puny little appraiser ants" outnumber us a thousand to one. And if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life! It's not about fees. It's about keeping those appraiser ants in line. Appraiser Ants are not meant to serve AMC grasshoppers. I've seen these appraiser ants do great things, and year after year, they somehow manage to complete enough work for themselves and the AMC. So-so who's the weaker species? Appraiser Ants don't serve AMC grasshoppers! It's the AMC's who need us! We're a lot stronger than you say we are. And you know it, don't you?   Appraiser Ants UNITE against the Grasshopper AMC's    

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